<<<----THE INTERNET IS A FORM OF FREEDOM< SO>>>WE MUST EXCERSICE IT--->>>
So, according to NPR Bin Laden is (amongst other things) the destributor for VW/Porsche through out the middle east. He and his brother's holdings are enormous and include such things as the right to all snapple products in the mddle east. Sounds like a corporate war..
Wednesday, November 16., 2001
~~mother mourning becomes electricant!
The war has begun :::::
Good luck to all of us::: No mater what, they were the trigger men, non? and they were Bin Laden's, but....
I have no idea what will happen next.
----------->can't take the heat? try:
1: "snaps" are of what I was working on while these exchanges took place - I restore toys cars..
2: The bellow is an argument and I make no accusations; however, for the record, when informed of the WTC disaster his response did not look realr spottanious. It looked to me like he already knew that it would happen, and like some cheesy coke <sorry, but that concept is in circulation...) he wanted to show everyone just how cool and collected he could be. Totaly happening....
BC would have leaped up and said:Kids! We have an emergency
This is what I sent out into the world;
I sent it to a whole range of people:
(And, yes, I was trying to be obscene;
but I was also asking a question.)
I hope you realize that Afghanistan is also the world's largest producer of heroine; NY helped finance it's own destruction... TA-DA! maybe I should have called it "Bin-laden Smack!"NOT: BOB SMACK.... ====I hope this doesn't turn out to be just another drug war; I mean...you know...some schmuck in Brooklyn named Vinny forgot to pay up for a few kilos and just to show him who's boss.... PS: Oh yes, this is my "truism" for the week - I found it on the net: "Both a drunk and a junky will steal from you; but only a junky will help you look for it after woulds..." You know, say what you like but...my paintings look REALLY GOOD now: just to refresh your memory: http://www.cybertours.com/~bobmobile/paintings.html
This is what I got back:
You should point out that after the Taliban consolidated its power it eliminated the production of heroin but the opposition faction led by the recently assassinated Lion of Pashkir (or whatever - I think his name was Massoud) actually continued the production and export of heroin. His group, called the Northern Opposition, is now the group that we are seeking to associate with to help bring down the Taliban. They control about 5% of the country in its far northeastern corne r and continue in the heroin trade to help finance their operations. My source for this information is the New York Times.
Thank you - but, on the net I've found claims that Bin Laden etc. have actually paid for arms on occasion with combinations of cash and smack... It's a murky question; and of course lots of people like to then get involved in, not official, but, well, you know...cia "cowboys" and empty transport plains and things like that... I supose a question that is in my mind is: why the WTC? No body even liked those buildings in the first place; it they had gone for Rock Center or the Chrysler building...both in much more built up areas, (more prestige firms in Rock), and people have a lot more affection for them. And this is the second time they've hit on WTC.... It is, as they say, a concept...I don't men it to be more than that, honestly; but I do like disseminating all this in "hipster" circles...no need to give that area (Mideast) any money for the time being no matter what. Plus, heroin sucks.... (Sure wish I could ask Tony Shafrazzi about all this....)
PPS: is Bin Laden a terrorist or...just another drug dealer? Is principle at stake or...is it just about money....
It may very well be that bin laden has trafficked in heroin but he is NOT part of the Taliban. Remember that he is a Saudi who came to Afghanistan to fight the Russians
bin Laden is a fundamentalist militant. I have a real problem with the term "Terrorist" for a variety of reasons although if it could not be applied to him I suppose it would be difficult to apply it to many individuals or organizations. I don't know anything about his drug connections although I believe it is unlikely that such stories have much truth to them since the Taliban which hosts him is dead set against drugs.
Yes...and...he runs an "organization"..... He wheels and deals; he makes things happen. He has a lot (or controls) a lot of money....
uh huh. he said
Well, you know...we have all been provided with a picture of the Gentleman that, well...might as well be Madonna or something. I don't know what really motivate hims; what real control he has over things, etc... Ie he really such a cartoon character? The CIA liked him enough to train him... GW Bush is a bit of a Barbie Doll as well....
Messages Messages Help Reply | Forward | View Source | Unwrap Lines Message 348 of 1506 | Previous | Next [ Up Thread ] Message Index Msg # From: "Claudia K. White"Msdarkstar1@a... Date: Sat Dec 9, 2000 12:22 pm Subject: dawnstar@e...http://www.cia.gov/CIA/public_affairs/speeches/dci_speech_020200.html [CIA-drugs] Narcotics/PERU /BOLIVIA/COLUMBIA/ BURMA/AFGHANISTAN From: dawnstar Date: Sat Dec 9, 2000 00:41am Subject: George J. Tenet/ Narcotics/PERU /BOLIVIA/COLUMBIA/ BURMA/AFGANISTAN Statement by Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet Before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence on The Worldwide Threat in 2000: Global Realities of Our National Security On the other side of the world, a dramatic increase of opium and heroin production in Afghanistan is again a cause for concern. This year, Afghanistan's farmers harvested a crop with the potential to produce 167 tons of heroin, making Afghanistan the world's largest producer of opium. Burma, which has a serious drought, dropped to second place, but will likely rebound quickly when the weather improves. * Explosive growth in Afghan opium production is being driven by the shared interests of traditional traffickers and the Taliban. And as with so many of these cross-national issues, Mr. Chairman, what concerns me most is the way the threats become intertwined. In this case, there is ample evidence that Islamic extremists such as Usama Bin Ladin use profits from the drug trade to support their terror campaign. http://www.omaid.com/english_section/news_archive/2000/dec00/19dec00.htm But an aide to Rep. Bill McCollum (R-Fla.) who asked not to be named, said: "The strategic aims of Pakistan and the United States are on a collision course" in the region. Analysts pointed out that Pakistan regards Afghanistan under the Taliban as giving it strategic depth and keeping separatist inclinations among the Pashtun under control. Brookings Institution Pakistan expert, Stephen Cohen said that several of Pakistan's senior leaders have "ties with Bin Laden and terrorists" and that within the ISI there exist "a lot of middle grade officers, majors and colonels" who have "pro-bin Laden sympathies" He also spoke of the "increasing Talibanization" of the ISI over which political control has been weak in recent years. The new sanctions would tighten the existing flight embargo on the Taliban's airline and freeze Taliban and bin Laden financial assets abroad. It would also ban the sale of chemicals used to convert opium to heroin. But a U.S. government analyst stressed the difficulties in attempting to monitor the Taliban's and bin Laden's financial dealings. "The Taliban are filthy rich," said one U.S. government analyst, "thanks to a revenue in the drug trade" that totals between $7 billion and $8 billion a year. "Of the drug traffic, bin Laden takes a commission of between 10 and 15 percent, which gives him an annual income of about $1 billon total," this source said.
Thank you for sending me this material. Is it possible that the comments about shared interest have more to do with the territorial consolidation goals of the Taliban provoking others to increase opium production in response? It would seem like a tortured interpretation of such remarks but odder things have happened. I'm surprised more has not been brought out about this. Is it possible that the subject is being avoided because if you look back at CIA involvement in the 1980s there might be a serious body of evidence pointing to quiescence by the Agency or worse in developing this cash resource?
Particularly because of the unique position of George Bush senior at the time - former CIA head who may even have been actively involved in developing the Agency's strategy at the time. Is that possible?
Um...yea; Bin Laden was "our" man once upon a time; and, discussions of the CIA via drug running, well...rumour city! As I open my mail Iam reading on yahoo: "No Blank Check for U.S. Action From UN, NATO" why such reticents? You would think this was the big excuse to go full blast? Speaking as,...well, a would be man if action? ..or something, It's been a week and that twit Bush hasn't done anything. There's a lot of guys, given that power, would have used this as the opening they had always dreamed of.... But, perhaps we've finally reached a point where it's not safe to speculate too much; what goes around, comes around; and...I think...it came around....
PS: think of it as a giant kinetic conceptual art piece, like...feel the energy man....it's already some place else....
One has to assume , these guys are that evil....
Or - if you want to be truly evil:
A: nobody ever like the WTC
B: it's was ugly
C: via current high tech demands, verging on obsolete (as are most of the buildings in the Wall Street area
D: now...they get to redevelop the whole area...owner of the free hold lease has already announced he will build anew (they could, after all, just erect a memorial, non?)
I also got this back:
Thank you for your ignorant words. In reply: - The entire world - including Europe - uses heroine, not just New York. - You have a short grasp of history. Remember that entire cities after WW2 were rebuilt, including Berlin. New York is not destroyed - the WTC will rise again, even better and more glorious than before. - Bin Laden is a dead sucker. When we receive word of his demise, I will send you another e-mail. Have a nice day...
Thank you - RE:- Bin Laden is a dead sucker. When we receive word of his demise, I will send you another e-mail. Really! I', waiting! They're taking their damn time! Plus, on the net I've found claims that Bin Laden etc. have actually paid for arms on occasion with combinations of cash and smack... It's a murky question; and of course lots of people like to then get involved in, not official, but, well...cia "cowboys" and empty transport plains and things like that... I suppose a question that is in my mind is: why the WTC? No body even likes those buildings in the first place; it they had gone for Rock enter or the Chrysler building...much more built up areas, more prestige firms in Rock, and people have a lot more affection for them. And this is the second time they've hit on WTC.... It is, as they say, a concept...I don't men it to be more than that, honestly; but I do like disseminating all this in "hipster" circles...no need to give that area (Mideast) any money for the time being no matter what. Plus, heroin sucks.... (Sure wish I could ask Tony Shafrazzi about all this....)
PS: is Bin Laden a terrorist or...just another drug dealer? Is principle at stake or...is it just about money....
Thank you. In reply again, - The WTC represents 9 million square feet of commercial real estate. New York is a vertical city, and there is no place else to replace this space. If this commercial real estate is not rebuilt, than most of these firms and their employees will have to will relocate elsewhere - to other cities and other states. - To repeat, when Bin Laden is taken care of, I will send you an a-mail.
Yes, it was already announced that the holder of the lease plans on rebuilding; in a lot of places they'd put up a memorial instead, but, not in NYC I guess...
Of course they will have a memorial - probably on or near the grounds of the WTC. It will probably be a small park, or a major sculpture, similiar in spirit to the Vietnam Memorial in D.C., or Maya Lin's beautiful Civil Rights Memorial in Montgomery, Alabama. But the office space has to be rebuilt. It is the real estate taxes paid by these displaced firms - and the city and state taxes paid by their displaced employees - which help support the city's services and schools.
ME: I will add this notation to the page I put up. Thanks.
Not a problem, and I appreciated hearing your views. I certainly support a memorial. I was at ground zero on the first night, and it had a bad effect.
This came from god knows where; via a yahoo club I think:
"oh hell yeah, this is too cool girl! This gets my vote for what the rebuilding should look like... and it really captures that new York spirit too. :P > >hehehehe god i was about to post it in the ruby but i think wolfy would >kill me!!!! so i share it with you :P > > > > >xoxo >R."
Seems a little uninspiring to me; in my paranoia I initially presumed it was just, what? A reference to Scientology or something?God only knows; WTC was not a good looking piece of work; and my hope, actually, would be that sort of astounding cubist/modern/post-modern statement will go up in it place. It is a fabulous opportunity in fact.....
But, I responded to their strange note with this:
And on second thought, a couple of hours later, I suggested:
So much for "madness; I wrote and urged some fairly reasonable people to comment on all this,
including my father who is Jewish and your basic "successful" guy.
What came back was a piece from the op-ed of a respectable newspaper.
Now, such things are copywrited. I believe, so I have in anarchist tradition modified a text that may or may not be that op-ed piece.
By quirk of fate I have been in Jordan . One need only visit some of the most popular Arabic Web sites and chat rooms to see that public opinion in the Arab world is split about 50-50 - between those appalled by the bombing and those applauding it.
The harshest e-mail's, Arab teaches tell me, come from Islamists in Saudi Arabia and the gulf, home to some of the hijackers.
We need the help of the moderate Arab states to fight this war. And for now, most of these Arab leaders are ready to cooperate with us - because enough of their publics are tilted our way. On Sunday I interviewed Jordan's King Abdullah.
He had three wise messages: We can win if you Americans don't forget who you are, if you don't forget who your friends are and if we work together.
"The terrorists are trying to break down the fabric of the U.S.," said the Jordanian monarch. "They want to break down what America stands for. The terrorists actually want to provoke attacks on Arabs or Muslims in the U.S., because if the American communities start going after each other, if we see America fragment, then you destroy that special thing that America stands for. That's what the terrorists want - they want to be able to turn to your friends here and say, `Look, this is all a myth.'
"That is why you have to be very careful when you respond - make sure you respond in a way that punishes the real perpetrators, that brings justice, not revenge, because otherwise you will be going against your own ideals, and that is what the terrorists want most."
The terrorist groups are a global organization. They know how to cooperate and stay focused on their military objectives. We have not. Some people didn't want to share intelligence. [Some] said, Islamic terrorism is not my problem, and looked the other way. We can defeat them, but only if we learn to cooperate globally as effectively as they do."
...and on that note I offer these exerts:
("No point in sending the Afagnies back to the stone age..." they said,, and I thought, well...as far as I can tell, they're already there!)
A friend made the "classic" statement: I think Afghanistan would look very nice as a huge bomb crater and if there happens to be a little "collateral damage" that spills over into Pakistan... oh well.
And clever me said:
I think they should have nuked him 2 days latter.
I think it's too late now; It's just starting to all look like another CIA squeeze play to me.
Unfortunately, there literally is NO EVIDENCE linking Bin L. in any substantitive manor to any of this; he's just the local strong man; the Afgany "Mr. 10%"; we trained him, but...he escaped our control; that's all; even on NPR they're saying that, in fact, it is considered perfectly plausible that the perpetrators were almost completely autonomous and acted on their own (by "Situationist" principles, I guess...)
I think the moment (of justifiable rage) has been lost and until we have real, empirical (legal, by our own standards ) proof, we have to just...blow it off! ie: Georgy blew it! The " decisive moment" came and went; he is an asshole!
(No doubt Al Bore wouldn't have done any better; but, then ...his father isn't George Bush either!)
THIS CAME BACK:
DAMN! I knew I should have voted for Andrew Fenton for President. Oh well, maybe next time.
A bobmobile in every garage! That's a personal promise! ..oh yes, and two chickens in a pot to pee in...what a deal!?
PS: what can I tell you - I'm not starting Armageddon over the fucking World Trade Towers; or fucking NyC either; least of all with out, say...just a little evidence. Screw them...who cares! And fuck Bush too (pardon the pun...) I say: ROCK On JUNKIES OF AMERICA!
My father wrote again:
I don't want to be negative, but I am starting to think the Bin laden stuff is going over the edge now. I know you have been having a lot of fun with it, but it seems to me its getting mean spirited. You are way too talented to waste your efforts on him or the Bushes or any of that stuff. What do you think?
and I wrote back:
Ummm, I am speculating. I thought my last "posting" was fairly reasonable, rational, cogent, etc... Any comments? Or, how do fee l about the Bush's?. I, personally, am very suspicious of them. I don't think they are quality people. ----------
And I would add:
There are certain repeating patterns between this administration and Senior's administration: the economy slows down; a middle east strong man attacks, and then...woosh...we're right back in there......
From the sublime(?) to....
|....and then I received these message from an acquaintance in NYC:|
I Couldn't help modlifying it:
<----------------BACK TO REASON----------------->
So, I have this art club on Yahoo and one of the membersis a "reasonable" guy. Makes art; a human being; ; these are excerpt from his notes to me:
"I agree with what you say about the Heroin trade and Afghanistan being the leading producer that was always known.
Yet you comment on Pres. George W Bush as a Barbi doll and that he is not doing anything. Being a Veteran I believe that he' is in fact doing it right. It takes alot of planning and preparing.
Since 1976 the CIA has been crippled by regulations passed by congress to tie the hands of the CIA on how they can work. The same was said about Pres. Bush Sr, that he was a wimp or how would he be fishing during the crisis (his cigarette boat was an communication station). But, he manages to put on a cool act, aperfect poker face, to keep Saddam guessing. It took seven months to prepare to fight that fight, assembling what I believe was, at the time, the forth largest army in the world. When they did attack the shit hit the fan and, as Saddam said, it was the mother of all battles. This time it's not the army we are planning for, it's the terrain, and the mountains. How to deploy and where best to deploy, and we're gathering Intelligence for the Military to do their job right, not ot mention for the diplomats to do their jobs in building coalitions with other countries of the world, not a few of which were our enemys not long ago: Iran and China (which Bush sr. was once an Ambassador to)
To me, it gets to me when people say that the president isn't doing anything when... they don't know what he's doing! We're suppose to keep the otherside guessing. ..
P.S. No not everybody disliked the twin towers, they were built to do what they did and they did that job well. A lot of people thought they where Beautiful and I was one of them. I live about 25 miles from them and we all thought that they made a beautiful Image on the horizon on the bay at night with all the lights and they stood there so proudly you just couldn't stop starring at them. I miss them; I was out in my boat and all that smoke was rising, and I cried ,mostly for the people that died, but to for the building as well. My Father, rest in peace, an immigrant from Finland, helped build it.
Most of the People who say they don't like the towers are just elitists or think that they are.
It was built to show the world the strength and pride of the American Spirit....
I wrote back:
I was wondering, was it the "Mother of All Battles" for us? We are basically in an era (for America) of a fully automated (counter)attack. It would be like playing chess against an opponent who could play all the of the possible counter moves the moment you made you move. Jist: Boom-Boom-boom - the second you put your pawn down. What do you think?
It wasn't for for us what Iwo Jima, D-DAY Or Gettysburg were. No. It was just a really good butt kicking for him. He was bruised and since the war he's been no more than a pebble in our shoe, maybe a irritating stone.
He is pretty smart in predicting what we were going to do before, but things have changed.
They went went a step too far this time and declared war on us, and NATO, by attacking the U.S. Plus we are in the right and most of the world is backing us, even China and Russia,s and they are going to give us Intelligence. Today the people of Afghanistan are running to the borders and the army has lost it's discipline, they are looting homes and stores. Nobody say's battling this guy is going to be easy, Sometimes you've got to fight for what you believe in. We can't sit and take it anymore.What they did is an act of war. Before you ask: "where is the evidence?" There is plenty of evidence just for the Kenya and Nairobi embassies bombings. People have been tried and confessed, convicted for them and bin ladin has been indicted by a Grand jury and warrants are out for him. If convicted he would never see the light of day. Even without the Cole and the attacks on the WTC and the pentagon and the deaths of those airline passengers. I believe that this response from the USA will be successful. Most of the world believes we will prevail and is backing us. Afghanistan right now is Isolated from most of the world community...
Nice to talk to You....
Now, back to paranoia!
If Mr Bin Lada is "Thee Drug Kin Pin", is the drug scean a big information gathering service for him, and....?
It is, as the say: A CONCEPT
After all, you're liable to run into most anyone down in "drugland".
Has he thus contaminated all of America?
Has he craweled right oup our asshole?
Is he slowly working his way up NYC?
(SEE mape: a concept: 14th Street is next?)
------->Where's KING KONG when you need him?
The below are from a show caled "Disposible Art" that took place recently in Canada; curated by Cheryl Jonah
But, let talk about MAPs again; look below. Afganistan is not part of the middle east; it's part of ASIA, and while it is land locked, it's not real far from the water. A little rearanging and it wold make a great port.
Have to say; the do nice work these days:
...life goes on....
Now, back to "REAL LIFE", if you like:
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